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Fighting Fire with...Cops?

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Woodbury police officer Spencer Scofield trains with the Woodbury Fire department in White Bear Lake, Minnesota Tuesday , April 22, 2008. (Brandi Jade Thomas)

Pioneer Press

April 29, 2008

WOODBURY, MN – In Woodbury, the police will help if you get mugged.

Or if your house catches fire.

Or if you have a heart attack.

That’s because Woodbury has become the only place in Minnesota where on-duty police fight crime, put out fires and respond to medical emergencies as paramedics.

“It’s a good idea,” said cop-fireman Spencer Scofield, as he emerged soot-covered from a flaming building at a training session last Tuesday. “The police are usually the first ones there, anyway.”

The city’s supercop program was recognized this week by the Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs for efficient government because it saves money and, potentially, lives. Response times in Woodbury have improved dramatically, and the program has saved the equivalent of 4.5 full-time jobs.

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Woodbury police officer Jeff St. Martin trains with the Woodbury Fire department in White Bear Lake, Minnesota Tuesday , April 22, 2008. (Brandi Jade Thomas)

“Good things are happening here,” said Todd Johnson, deputy public safety director.

So far, 10 of Woodbury’s 63 police officers have been trained as firefighters. The extra training is worth $1.25 more per hour, in addition to base hourly wages ranging from $22 to $31.

Their squad cars have been replaced with specially equipped SUVs, packed with firefighting gear and clothing.

Ann Gergen applauded the city’s money-saving efforts. But Gergen, the associate administrator of the League of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust, said the lessons might not be transferrable to other cities.

“This might be an exciting innovation for Woodbury, but it’s very city-specific,” Gergen said.

But other cities are curious. Officials are calling Woodbury Public Safety Director Lee Vague. “The reaction ranges from ‘You are crazy’ to ‘Wait and see,’ ’’ he said.

Woodbury first doubled-up police duties in the 1990s, when the city began training some police officers as paramedics.

Johnson said Woodbury has since become a good place to have a heart attack — with more than half of all victims surviving, compared with a national average of about 10 percent.

When paramedic cops answer calls today, they don’t have to wait for an ambulance to take action.

“They can even do minor surgeries,” Johnson said, including opening a blocked throat or withdrawing fluid from a stalled heart.

But blending firefighting into police work was more complicated.

The firefighters had to answer a soaring number of medical calls, about eight per day. But the fire calls remained low — the department got about two calls a day, mostly false alarms, and a call for a serious building fire once a month.

The city set a goal of having five firefighters on the scene of a fire within nine minutes, 90 percent of the time. In 2004, with a department of 80 on-call firefighters and only four full-timers, officials calculated they’d need to hire 32 more full-timers.


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  • Photo_user_blank_big

    integrated

    4 days ago

    1 comment

    Lets get the story straight. Our SUV's are our normal Police Chevy Tahoe's. The area behind the rear seats has been modified with a large steel drawer. Our Scott pack is mounted on top of that. We carry a halligan and other smaller tools in the drawer. Out turnout gear is kept in a duffel bag in back. We don't carry water and we don't carry other firefighters to a call with us. We respond just like any other police officer would to a fire call. We don't go back to a fire hall and drive the trucks. Secondly, what's with the "Cops are cops because they can't get thru firefighter school" or "what do they know about firefighting?" What type of ignorant comments are those? We pass the physical every year with flying colors. The FF phycical is actually easier than the standards we have to meet each year as a Police Officer. We are also trained to Firefighter II which is a higher standard than some other departments across the country. I'm sorry to say but I've seen some firefighters that would get winded turning the ingition key. We are taking jobs away from people who want to be firefighters? Where are they? Our city is constantly looking for qualified POC candidates and no one is applying. Explain that to me? We are basically filling those gaps in staffing. Also, Police calls come first. We aren't going to tell someone, "sorry you got assaulted/robbed/harassed but I have to go respond to a water flow alarm." It doensn't work that way. Most of the calls we get are just alarms. We arrive on scene, do our 360 and then advise fire if they need to keep screaming across the city or slow to routine or even cancel. I don't understand how that makes me not a firefighter so how can you say we don't know what we are doing and to "stay on the porch little pups?" We are basically full-time paid-on-call personel. While most POC respond to a call either on their day off or before or after work, we respond during our full time job. And no the city isn't left unguarded if a fire starts. Police calls first, we still have great full-time staff and a great POC staff that can handle the call. Thanks.
  • 2008_0312_015__max50

    burkevfd70

    4 days ago

    1 comment

    Yea..looking around my community..the cops would definatlely not pass the physical test..haha
  • 0f8a620c0c22_max50

    Michael_Diggs

    5 days ago

    5 comments

    ive seen cities gone from bad to worst, in most cases a ton of new officers but the same outcome. let them take focus on a situation they still have not controlled before adding more to their workload
  • 101_0325_max50

    DwayneWiss

    5 days ago

    16 comments

    Disagree totally to the Police being firefighters too. What do they really know about firefighting. I hear of Police training everyday but what about the city being un-protected from crime when we are the ones on call. What is the officer going to do get into the trunk and pull out a fire hose and fight the house fire. NOT. We will be the 1 to be called anyways. By the time we ge there it will be burning the same way as it would if the Officer didn't show up. UNLESS its a kitchen stove fire or a small fire that can be put out by a fire extinguisher. I crack on our Police buddies and think their funny when they talk about it but my opinion is stay on the porch little pups we have the suits and equipment, you have what a hat and uniform to protect you from what !!!!!! Firefighters and EMS alike we stand together.
  • Hi_max50

    silverwulf

    6 days ago

    18 comments

    Might be a good idea, but when we were burglarized last week it took the officers twenty minutes to respond ( one cop, one car) to a 911 call for burglary in progress with the subject still in the building. I've never seen our local PD speedy about anything.
  • 030108_17081_1__max50

    rescue5squad343

    6 days ago

    724 comments

    what ever makes the world go round
  • Photo_user_blank_big

    Pyros_21_1999

    6 days ago

    7 comments

    this would be cop heven we have a saying over here cops are fire fighters that couldnt pass the physical lol
  • Truck_front_normal_max50

    firepolice

    7 days ago

    5 comments

    I somewhat agree with this. It is a good idea to cross-train but this will present a problem when all your Pd units are tied up at fires. This needs to be something that is only on a must have basis. If you cross train several of your police officers and the fire department needs help than by all means send a couple ofc to help as long as there are plenty on the street. There is no reason to put your city at risk just because your cops are helping fd with a house fire. The police department that I work for awhile back was talking about doing this (but we are always under staffed) but one day maybe we will do this, but only in emergency situations. As far as the first responder there is no reason not to... if all your ofc are at least at an ECA level and they aren't doing anything than why would they not respond. I know in our city EMS takes forever to get there sometimes 12min + but if an ofc responds they can start basic treatment that may save the person. On major EMS calls our ofc respond (for more as a visual thing) but none are more than basic CPR and AED.
  • Jeff1_max50

    jmichaei2006

    7 days ago

    1 comment

    well bro's so much for bustin our asses to help the ungreatful this idea better not spread
  • Photo_user_blank_big

    Firecadet3761

    8 days ago

    2 comments

    Arent we (Firefighters) and Cops supposed to be working togather? I think this is a great idea.
  • Michigan_star_of_life_max50

    emtjad

    9 days ago

    215 comments

    Not all cops are on the road on patrol in a Public Safety Department. One or two are left to man the station to bring apparatus to the fire scene. You guys are missing the point here. I'm not advocating, but just clarifying that the cops aren't just showing up without a water source. Then they augment manpower with paid on call firefighters and mutual aid from other departments.
  • Day_hike_max50

    safireheart1

    10 days ago

    73 comments

    I can't imagine fighting fire with my neighbor (the cop)...... anyway........... This idea will tie up the cops in potentially lengthy firefighting operations. This could be very bad for those who need cops to be cops.
  • New_badge_-_badge_only_1_max50

    Glen603

    11 days ago

    10 comments

    If I recall correctly, Winston-Salem, NC, tried the PSO route many years ago and ended up ditching for all the obvious reasons that all the "nay sayers" objected to. Turns out they were right.
  • Irish_desktop_max50

    AngelJo008

    11 days ago

    46 comments

    There is a reason the FFs are FFs and a reason the Cops are Cops. Never the two shall mix.
  • Photo_user_blank_big

    T37R32E1

    14 days ago

    1 comment

    We went Public Safety for 5 years. Our cops cross-trained as Firefighters. It's a good concept as far as getting extra manpower at the scene, but the cops generally are only good for the first few minutes and then they got called by dispatch to do cop calls. The big killer to this idea we found was that the amount of training that is required by both cops and firefighter/medics is too time consuming for each, much less to have to keep up with both occupations. Besides, most cross trained PD-FD guys and gals say after a while they really just wanted to get back to their main career, whether it be police or fire, but not both. We are currently switching back to separate depts.

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