FireLink

Firetiger I have been in this exact situation as you in this. My main salvation actually came from a session with my preacher. I have no doubt that your talking to them helped them a great deal regardless it's hard to know within yourself and you'll always have doubts in yourself as to wether or not you did everything you could have. I assure you you did. Just sometimes the Lord has bigger plans for people and there is nothing you can do to change that. But to the point, I would recommend talking to your preacher or find a good friend and just have a good long talk and if you need to cry by all means let it roll.

We have all been there at one time or another. I had a bad call my during my 1st week of my medic internship. I started out ok then suddenly I froze and felt so lost. I was able after several minutes to pull myself together and get the pt intubated and transported. The pt passed away that evening. Although I knew the pt had a pons bleed and less then 1% chance of survival, I still felt responsible. I kept asking what if I hadn't froze. I almost quit. This may sound silly but I went and spent the day talking to my horse (she's a good listener). I realized we are only human and compassion is our nature and who we are and sometimes people just need to leave us. Some resources available to you is CISD, available at any time and the Sheriff's Chaplain office. It's ok to ask for help and as oohrah said it's ok to cry if you need to. Just don't let these feelings linger on. Don't second guess yourself, I'm sure you did all you could it was just their time. Take care!

Was this person someone you knew? Was he close to your age? Or was it because you just got "close " to this person in a very intense situation? We all have one that just bugs us even if we have no connection to them whatsoever. It just does. All of the advice given here is absolutely correct. Talk! To someone! Even if it's your horse. It does work and you cannot keep it bottled up. CISM is great. I have used it more than once!

What they all said. Realize that you are having a normal response to an abnormal event. Find someone who will listen.

CISD is a must,,,,, I have had two "incidents" since 12 Feb this year with my Vol. Dept. and both were very bad. CISD was not used in either case due to the Chief (I won't go there) For me it was talking with the guys I work with at the Air Base and my Wife.....Just don't keep it in.

I went from being sad to MAD in about 4 days time,,,,,It gets better but you will never forget,,, Hope you are doing better.

Thanks all of you.  To answer a few of the questions you asked.....No I didnt know him but he was close to my age.  The worst part of all of this was this one that I wrote about happened on a friday and then we had another on Monday and the driver also died.  I have talked to quite a few other firemen that helped plus I talked to my best friend who helped alot. I also went from sad to mad and back again.  I still have an ache even though I know I did all I could for both of them.(I happened to be giving Cspine on both)  Thanks for all the info and your time to answer.  I am glad to have all my brothers and sisters on here....THANKS

Firetiger,  thank you for sharing your feelings and emotions with us. 

Folks, what firetiger has done here, maybe without even knowing it, is find a release for his/her stress.  The stress FT experienced and is experiencing as a result of an MVA call is common to every person in Emergency Services.  We each have a "weak spot" (mine are ped calls), and to ignore the emotions you experience following your stressor, does you and everyone around you a disservice. 

 If you find yourself showing the symptoms of PTSD, even a little, you need to talk with someone and find a healthy, safe release.  It is important for your career to do so, as it can develop into Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  PTSD can eventually cripple you emotionally, if left alone. 

 Firetiger, I hear what you are saying, loud and clear, I've been there.  Here is a little "trick" I use when I start second guessing myself.  Become totally impartial (almost like another person).   Based on your jurisdiction's protocols, review what you did, with the knowledge, ability, and scope of treatment you had available to you.  Now, impartially rate your actions at the scene, remember, you are impartial.  Did you violate EMS protocol?  Did you cause harm?  This guy was brain dead, what else could you have done to reverse this?  Just keep in mind, he was already injured when you got on scene, you just rendered aid.

 This is something I have seen over and over with newer EMS personnel.  They have good hearts and great knowledge, with enthusiasm out the ears.  But the public has the tendency to really injure themselves, and many times, there is nothing you or I as EMS workers can do to patch them up and we must accept that we cannot save all of them, though we will always try.

 I'll finish with an anecdote.  When I was Medical Training Officer for FCSD SAR, I saw this very thing and saw the need to give a little reality-check to our newer members.  So on one of our more elaborate training sessions (all-day SAR exercise with rope work/rappeling/tracking/EMS)  I made our team actually pack out someone while simulating CPR all the way down the trail (3 miles).  At the bottom of the hill, he was pronounced dead by the deputy in charge.  After this I asked what people learned from this experience, and the answers I received were  very satisfying.  The general concensus  was "No matter what or how well you do your job, people sometimes still die".  I did this not as a bring-down of the enthusiasm, but more as a preparation for the inevitable in EMS.  My first fatality in EMS was a 4 y.o. MVA victim, and that call messed me up for a long time.  PTSD was not really known in the EMS field then and I was able to work it out eventually, but to this day that call gives me nightmares.

 Firetiger, please keep this in mind, some after-call self-review is good, but dwelling on it is not.  Have faith in your training and abilities and follow protocol.  Use everything as a learning experience.

 Doc

CISD is very important, and all chief officers should understand the legal ramifications of not making them available to their people. That being said, you've gone a long way just by asking the help of the good folks on this forum, and they are all right. be careful of the lingering effects of this stress. I had a couple bad ones back-to-back some years ago, and spent the next few years as a raging alcoholic, it almost cost me my position in the department and community. Thankfully, we now have a very active county-wide CIST who will come at the drop of a hat.The great thing about CISD that I've found is the "peer" aspect of talking it out with another FF who understands, and has been there. Don't just think "It will pass" it won't. God Bless You. Good Luck.

I have great ears. ( Although you can't see them through the computer screen !! ) If you ever want to talk get in touch with me. I posted something similar on here and the people here are great.