Group Forums >> Hardheaded Firefighters >> Positive Pressure Attack
Positive Pressure Attack
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Posted about 1 month ago So I took this class on pos pressure attack and seems to make a lot of sense. I know everyone gets all excited to get up on the roof and cut a vent hole but this approach (assuming the fire has not yet self ventilated through the roof) cuts down on sending firefighters on the roof thus keeping us all a little safer. We haven't had a chance to practice this yet but it's a very simple attack and as with venting the roof requires precision timing. Does or has anyone out there use/used this attack?? |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Can you give me more info? |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Works well but there are risk! Proper location is key along with tool selection. The few times we have preformed this we were impressed with the effectiveness. Reduced smoke and heat in the structure makeing suppression easier. I don't know about precision timing, when the hole is cut and the fan is running you will be able to tell the structure is venting. Cut the hole ,open the ceiling and get back to the ladder. If the roof seems unsable it probly is. Stay off of it, if possible cut the roof as best you can from the ladder. Gain vs Risk? |
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| Posted about 1 month ago http://www.positivepressureattack.com/ |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I learned about positive pressure attack using windows and fans in doorways during level 1 training , This does work. Had the chance to use it on a few structure fires and it helps keep fire in a directed location if the structure is a mobile home. Helps to keep everything in the burn area and reduces damage. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago
Yea PPA is the next best thing next to sliced bread and the TI camera. IF and that’s a BIG IF they are used properly poor PPA could burn or even kill firefighters. My fire chief came from Sacramento Metro fire and we were all taught PPA in firefighter I class but he brought with him thirty plus years of heavy use of PPA and has help us really get it down to were we can get up cut and get down and set up a PPV (positive pressure fan) usually before the entry team has breached the door making it easy for them to see the fire and were to fight the fire. But like I said it is just another tool in the tool box every fire is going to be different and will take different tactics to get the job done.
FTM-PTB-RFH-EGH
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| Posted about 1 month ago Totally understand, I'm just glad I'm getting some feedback on it. Their big thing in the lecture though was to keep FF's off the roof so they were venting using a window close to the seat of the fire or a back door. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago you still have to be careful because using this before you start knocking the fire it will just feed the fire and may get away from you, at my company we have a OVM which stands for out door vent man, and we keep radio traffic with him from inside so he knows to set up the PPE after we have started to knock the fire, but in some cases a hole in the roof is your best bet |
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| Posted about 1 month ago i meant PPV not PPE above |
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| Posted about 1 month ago We have use positive pressure ventalation for years. I've been in the fire service for 12yrs. and we have always used this technique. The best way is to get the fan set up right away @ a door opening farthest from the fire and opening a window closest. We hardly vent a roof anymore, we still train on doing so though. If you haven't tried this before and you live where you can do live burns by all means try it you may not go back to the older ways.
Rod 663 |
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| Posted about 1 month ago At my fire dept we dont use positive pressure attacks. We do the cut the roof open and take out windows as needed. I never took classes on it but i watched a few videos where they turned on the ppv and quickly a flashover occured. I guess if you use it properly then you reduce the risks but if you do it wrong there can be serious consequences. Any feedback let me know, im always interested in learning something new |
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| Posted about 1 month ago We use positive pressure when the situation calls for it. It has worked great when we need it. The only problem we usually have is starting the vent fan! Gas doesnt like to sit around and not be used. It tends to turn sour |
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| Posted about 1 month ago We used PPA as well in training scenarios. We rarely ever cut a whole in the roof to do it. A window or a cut in the side of the house near the peak will work just as well. Sometimes it is a lot safet to do this as well. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago KD7CAO says ...
This is definitely more along the lines of what we learned about. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Just make sure your attack crews are ready when you start pushing air into the burning structure. That's the main timing issue to be vigilent of. The technique works. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Ltpitcher says ...
Excellent point. And, I agree. Positive pressure attack is BAD ASS....when it works. It will kill you when it goes wrong. Good idea, and extremely effective when used properly. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I checked out the web site, interesting. We have done this once before and I didn't realize it was a whole training in itself. I am going to ask our dept for more training on this and see what they say. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago We do a quick attack that includes PPV at the point of entry, with the vent being as close to the seat of the fire as possible. I can't remember the last flashover after we initiated attack, so we seldom vent the roof anymore. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago PPV is a good suppression tactic only if you have trained on it and your crews are very tightly coordinated. If you are doing PPV and you actually have flashover you will probably kill firefighter(s). Keep in mind you have to balance your risk vs returns, and risking firefighter(s) is not acceptable. Do not rule out the possibility of a backdraft if your fan starts before your vent is effected. I prefer a safer approach, like vent before entry, or vent high and vent quick. Just remember, all of the above tactics have risk. This is a part of firefighting. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I can't remember the last time that we vented a roof, we almost always use a PPA and are able to get a good knock down, in our last five structure fires more than 90% of the structure has been saved. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago what up dude. yes awsome idea isent it. my dept has been doing this for a while now. open a window or door on one side of the house and put a high presure fan in the other and go to town. I think the less guys we put on roofs the better. but in some cases you know as well as I we have to do it the old fation way. RB |
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| Posted about 1 month ago We have been a PPV department since I've been on (13yrs). The only thing that has given me pause about it was taking Dave Dodson's smoke reading class. Because of fuel loads and smoke content the recommendation was never after a crew was inside. Like Pauly32 said, if it's not done right it can kill us...But I guess anything we do improperly can kill us. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I agree that PPV is a useful tool, but like everyone else has said it must be used properly. If you are going to use it, you have to get it set up just ahead of your attack teams. Setting it up afterwards just incereases the chance of a flare up behind the team/s. We sometimes will use our fan in conjunction with venting the roof. Donald Bramer
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| Posted about 1 month ago Positive Pressure Ventilation is a great tool and we use it all the time, works great if you have victims inside because it puts fresh air on them and pushes heat away to make a quick rescue. It also works well for 1 to 2 room involvement but if you dont have an escape route for the heat such as vertical or horizontal ventilation your adding fuel to the fire and you will burn down the house! |
