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My first thought would be is there anybody trapped Wheres the medic coming from and where is my nearest LZ. At the volunteer dept I am with, 2 enigines roll one of with is our crash rescue with on board foam and tools, The career dept MVA carfire first out 1500/1000/30 enginewith extrication tools then the rescue rolls out.  Normal car fire you should have a good knock down with a thousand gallons of H2O. Yall could see it from the station so it probably was not far away, to get someone on scene and do a size up, as far as the tanker driver being suspended, what is your protocol for car fire response? He could have done standby till he was needed. Having extra firetrucks on a scene only adds to the confusion.  Chief runs the dept and the officers should stand behind him or discuss it with him/her for another point of view, has that driver done free lance driving before.

Well than I guess the driver did no wrong, if yall thought it to be a car fire seeing the black smoke.        First this guy was checked off by the chief on driving. He in his mind thinks you can take a vehicle on a call and perform task at hand and make discisions.

Maybe it's just me, but 13 firefighters on a 2 car collision seems like a bit much. The only reason we roll a 2nd engine is for traffic coverage to block the scene for safety, or a 2nd tool on a pin in.

We have a rescue truck that seats 3 for MVA's. We only roll trucks that are ask for. If we need additional trucks then we add them to the call via dispatch. Since we respond to the station first, is your there you hear the request on the radio so anyone who is standing by can be on the way.

With that said- What are your protocals. Get to the scene, size up and add a truck or is it roll what you think you need when the call comes out? If it scene size up then add, then the driver should get a talking to for going against protocal- but suspending is a little harsh unless he has a habit of doing this. If it's roll what you think you need, then the chief is probably wrong and I would think there is another issue behind the suspension.

from what was said about the dept. chief, the driver should not be suspended because he didn't give a size up of the scene.  So it wasn't his fault.  In our station and someone took a truck that we didn't need they would have told them to return to the station.  Also, if a certain truck went before another one, or something else happened, the chief would just talk to you and tell you that, that truck shouldn't have gone and it would be done with.  No one would have been suspended.  If he's your best driver, try getting the guys to talk to the chief and let him know how you guys feel and that you might not be able to get trucks out b/c he isn't there to drive it.

as a comand staff in my department i do not see anything wrong with what the driver did. black smoke was spotted onroute to the station and you rolled what you thout was needed.

if anyone is held accountabul is the offercer at the sean or the seinor firefighter. regaredless of who,what,why the driver sould not stand for this and bring it to full membership for apel.

firefighter120 says ...

Just to clear some things up, he was not suspended for taking the tanker but taking it by himself when there was an available seat on the second eng. out. The second engine only responded with three, two of which were line officers and told the individual to get on that eng. This person has a bad habit of not follwoing orders given to him, for example the driver was told then to pull in behind one of the eng. and he took it upon himself to put whereever he wanted. Also our standard is the engs. respond with no less than four and the tanker two and the drivers are not to leave their rig. As far as the officers not doing anything, we have a great group of officers and they talked with the chief about this and other situations with this person. Also this person as far as i know is not yet signed off to drive two of the three rigs one of which is the tanker. As far as the deputy chief not giving a scene size up(The department chief was at his place of employment) a chief from a mutual aide dept. gave a size up before any of the units rolled and said there was no fire one vehicle on the roadway and one off the roadway.

looks like this final ignoring of orders was the straw that broke the camels back and the suspension had been comming for a while. following orders is essential to the smooth running of any dept and to me it sounds like this individual was a loose cannon who ignored orders and therefore was a danger to his colleagues and that cannot be allowed to happen. i'd be interested to hear what other action is taken over this if any 

firefighter120 says ...

Just to clear some things up, he was not suspended for taking the tanker but taking it by himself when there was an available seat on the second eng. out. The second engine only responded with three, two of which were line officers and told the individual to get on that eng. This person has a bad habit of not follwoing orders given to him, for example the driver was told then to pull in behind one of the eng. and he took it upon himself to put whereever he wanted. Also our standard is the engs. respond with no less than four and the tanker two and the drivers are not to leave their rig. As far as the officers not doing anything, we have a great group of officers and they talked with the chief about this and other situations with this person. Also this person as far as i know is not yet signed off to drive two of the three rigs one of which is the tanker. As far as the deputy chief not giving a scene size up(The department chief was at his place of employment) a chief from a mutual aide dept. gave a size up before any of the units rolled and said there was no fire one vehicle on the roadway and one off the roadway.

well that puts a way diffrent light on it and he should have been suspended. In my department if you something like that you lose your driving right to all trucks.

It all depends on the SOP/SOG of the company/department.  If the tanker is required for water if there is a vehicle fire, then the driver did no wrong.  In any point, I think the chief over reacted by suspending the volunteer.  There is never any wrong for too much man power or equipment in the world of volunteer fire fighting.

Reading some of the responses. My feelings are. 1) Did everyone follow SOG's / SPO's.

2) Seeing what was seen. I would rather have to much then not enough.You can always turn around whats not needed.

So your saying that a combined total of 1210 gal.of water from both engines along with the 65 gal. of foam and the hydrant roughly 300 feet from the intersection where the accident was would not be sufficent for a vehiclethat is on fire

The big problem with this thread is that certain individuals were not at the call or the fire house when the punishment was put into place, so then rumors got started and we all know how that goes. You say one thing to one person and by the time it reaches the end of the line, the story is completly backwards. If you don't know what you are talking about or you weren't there when it took place, then don't start complaining til you know the truth behind the events leading to the punishment. In other words, hear both sides of the story first.

He ignored a direct order from a line officer by rolling the tanker instead of getting on the engine... end of story.  Suspension is fully warranted in this situation.  Doesn't matter what you thought you might have, if you start allowing people to ignore orders from officers, discipline caves in completely.  

We have suspended and dismissed individuals for not following orders.

No matter what happen on that particular day. Driving a rig you have not been checked off on then you are putting others at risk no matter how familar you are with the equipment. Here is something to think about from the chiefs point of view or any officers point of view. If the said person happen to get in a wreck and seriously injured or killed a person. Lawsuit time and the department lost the case on one key evidence is the person checked off to drive the equipment and what are the quilifications to drive it and has he met those. So before you come down on the chief think what ifs. The key is everyones safety is in mind at all times. Not just ours but the citizens as well. And if this isnt the first time he has done something and been reprimended then suspension is the next step, not only that but he started the call out wrong by not following orders of the officer that was at station. Our department is small we have only average of 6 personal responding on a good day but dont think that will stop my chief from taking actions if we mess up. I have seen her pull rank on her own son and told him to be a team member or she will kick him off.

Respone to fireman344, true we dont want to discourage them from responding to calls but what would have happened if another call came out and with him not being at the truck he left in the parking lot and was in a position where he couldnt leave scene?  Not only are u down a truck that someone checked off could respond to but you also dont have the manpower to respond to the other call.  That is why sops are in effect.  Dont say it cant happen because even in a town of mine where we do good to get 100 calls it has happened here. It all goes with the nature of call.  Grant it ideal situation is everyone being checked off on the equipment. But for him to disobey an arder from an officer was his mistake.  Would you feel safe with a person who is gonna be a lone ranger or would u feel safe with a person who is gonna be a team player.  Trucks that arent needed on a scene is only gonna delay the one call that might come in.