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ok im not allowed to go in but if the buiding was in danger of collapsing wouldnt you want your partner out before yourself.

I understand that yourself is more important than theirs during that job but id rather go home nowing that they were out first or nowing that i saved someones life.

Ravenfirefighter says ...

In together - Out together!

Hopefully unless it was a case of Attainable Rescue...I wouldn't go or send Firefighters into a structure that displayed signs of collapse.

As always Raven your right on!

The 3 Priorities in the Fire/Rescue are:

Life Safety:  The safety of the First Responder is FIRST and Foremost!  Life safety is always our number one priority, which never under any circumstances ever changes. Life safety of the firefighters and emergency personnel responding the of higher priority, than those of the victims. Don't take this the wrong way, we care deeply for those we are sworn to protect and serve. Like it was said before, if we put emergency personnel in a place where they can be injured or killed, we would just be creating a bigger problem. The lives of both are none the less equal, but we have to protect our own people. This is a tough situation for a lot of people to understand. Firefighters will always try to save a life. As always, they want to err on the side of safety by protecting firefighters, yet affording the best chance of survival for the victims. One life lost, as tragic as it may seem, is better than costing six more firefighter lives.

Incident Stabilization:  is always the second consideration of the three priorities. By implementing incident stabilization, you could save the lives of people trapped in the upper floors of a burning structure, by quickly extinguishing or confining the fire. You considered their life safety and by implementing incident stabilization first, satisfied the life safety priority. By implementing one of the three priorities, you can satisfy the other two with little or no effort.

Property Conservation:  is the third and last of the incident priorities. Our efforts should towards minimizing property damage. This can be achieved though control and quick extinguishment of the fire by implementing good salvages efforts. Overhauling a fire area often involves checking void spaces for extension of fire. This may be the last of the priorities, but it still requires your undivided attention.

Yankee... as I hope you can see in Fire/Rescue we do not believe in the notion of acceptable Fire/Rescue personnel loss.  If a structure displays any of the warning signs of potential collapse, I will not jeopardize sending in Firefighters into a building that will be demolished anyway.

So even if the large span burning roof with I-beam trusses was about to collapse on you, you would continue searching until the IC told you to pull out?  

I can only hope your answer will change in a few years when you become a firefighter.  Operations should always be in contact with interior crews, AND the IC, and the IC should be fully knowledgable of what is occuring inside, and give the orders in a timely manner. Also as Raven said, crews should never be put at risk unless there is viable life inside. An offensive attack is ok if it is early enough, and worth saving. Otherwise there is no reason for it and all activities should remain defensive. This is where we get so many LODD's. Command getting tunnel vision and sending or keeping people in when they shouldn't be, or never should have been.

Then you are carrying on an invalid discussion. 

All members should have their radios inside. Command Officers should remain outside except for Operations. Most departments have a TIC and can see interior hidden fire. If you don't have one, odds are you are in a smaller department, or are very rural and likely don't have any commercial buildings within your district. There is nothing wrong with that, and I am not putting down in any way, that is just fact. I have been with similar departments years back where the biggest thing we had was a barn or maybe a convenience store. Like you said, by the time you get there, you may be just "saving the slab" and therefore, no interior attack will occur.

i would 2 but i guess were not really seeing eye 2 eye on this one but if your best friend was trapped or could possibly be trapped you wouldnt try to rescue them if you no its a posibillity it could collapse any second

thats what i think but i would rather take the pain so someone else could live

yankee3 says ...

i would 2 but i guess were not really seeing eye 2 eye on this one but if your best friend was trapped or could possibly be trapped you wouldnt try to rescue them if you no its a posibillity it could collapse any second

NO  there is no point in just adding to the fatalities if he is pinned and there is nothing i can do to get him out and the roof has started to fall im leaving SORRY to those of you that this post might make mad but i have always been taught the most important thing is my own life safety if I was pinned under a beam and the roof is about to give way i would cuss you out for still trying to rescue me trying to be a hero will only get you killed!

firemanjoe says ...

yankee3 says ...

i would 2 but i guess were not really seeing eye 2 eye on this one but if your best friend was trapped or could possibly be trapped you wouldnt try to rescue them if you no its a posibillity it could collapse any second

NO  there is no point in just adding to the fatalities if he is pinned and there is nothing i can do to get him out and the roof has started to fall im leaving SORRY to those of you that this post might make mad but i have always been taught the most important thing is my own life safety if I was pinned under a beam and the roof is about to give way i would cuss you out for still trying to rescue me trying to be a hero will only get you killed!

I agree to that point firemanjoe, my point was all out alive,......

dead firefighters don't fight fires here, but I will give everything I have to try to make it happen,

thats what brothers and sisters are for

firemanjoe says ...

dracosloe says ...

You go we go................

 

I hope you do not mean that if iwere trapped you would sit in there and die with me????

I would do everything I could to save you but as I stated, dead firefighters don't fight fires here, don't think I would run though

yankee3 says ...

well if i new i wasnt able to get him i would leave 2 and probably do the samething but if i now i can help him i would thats trying to decrease the lodds but thats not always possible but i dont really think it would actually happen where i live but i would like to make this as my carrer in  4 years. and i was just trying to see if any body actually has the same view as me

WHOA dont EVER say i dont think it will happen here   it DID HAPPEN HERE 2 ff's were killed in action at wayne auto salvage so dont ever say it wont happen. WAYNE COUNTY N.C.

well thats true also but its not really a high risk for us because if its within about 5sq miles of our station its more than likely save but we have also had many savesout of that range. and if the flame is visible through rough etc. they try not to enter unless they established that there is a safer alternative like a back door. like we had a fire uin june. about only half the house had burnt the rest either had smoke or water damage.

but i was just trying to see what kind of views people had on this topic

ok im officially done with this topic

firemanjoe says ...

well its not really a high risk for us either but it only takes one wrong move and you have got firemen dying, oh and btw you dont have to be in a structure to get killed have you ever heard of a wall collapse!?!

Outside of structure, Storm King Mountain, forest fires take close to as many FF's on bad fires, by %, almost always by not thinking and panicking, NOT and I repeat NOT always,