Group Forums >> Firehouse Issues >> "That is the way WE have always done it"
"That is the way WE have always done it"
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Posted 2 months ago I guess one of my issues would be that of the great phrase, "That is how WE have always done it." That phrase gets me everytime. There is nothing wrong with change, and at times I feel that change is a good thing. Without change, I feel that people get into what I describe as a rut. It is the same way everytime no matter if there may be a better way or more acceptable way. Do any of you feel that way or am I just blowing smoke? |
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| Posted 2 months ago i agree, new methods, new techniques are being developed every day. that is why we attend class, to learn other ways, to teach us to think out of the box and quickly apply our skills. yesterday in some way was diffrent than today. and tomarrow will be diffrent from today. nothing in this wolrd ever stays the same |
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| Posted 2 months ago "WE" have been in that rut you speak of. But we are slowly making a few changes. We just have to make sure we do everything by the book and make sure it is brought up at the monthly meeting in the right manner. It takes time but you're right, sometime change is for the better. Just remember that you can't do everything at once. We make a Living by what we get. We make a Life by what we give. |
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| Posted 2 months ago "WE have always done that way" I have heard that a lot in the past... And that is where it needs to stay is in the past. We are a new generaration of Firefighter, EMT's First Responders, even Haz Mat Techs. We are living in a world that needs to have open minds and willingness to learn new ways of doing things. A lot of the time, I hear from younger people (like me) and others who say we should try this into out training. You need to do new activties to keep new members coming back. If you can teach new ways and "spice" things up more people will want to stay around. These are just some of my thoughts. I hope you respect my thoughts on this discussion. |
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| Posted 2 months ago we went through this problem a few years ago and we lost few very good firefighters who had many years on the dept because they didnt like the changes being made and just walked away. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Justoneguy says ...
I couldn't agree with you more. Our department is becoming younger and younger. They are eager to learn but when it comes to some of the "old timers" it seems to bring the younger ones down. Thanks |
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| Posted 2 months ago I tell all my guys that when they attend the classes or go to a schooling to bring back, what they were taught and tell what they have learned, and give a briefing on the methods they learned in class. For example this department has 4 old school FF's that don't believe in the classroom training and wants them to learn by hands on only. I keep telling them to keep going to the classes and take in what the old school FF are telling them and to combine what they have learned in class and old school together to get the job done. I do not want to make any Old School Firefighters mad or angry with me but let the guys show us what they have learned cause things have changed. Before the SCBA's were introduced we were getting fresh air next to the nozzle. So yes changes are good but kick the guys that are trying to learn to be better at the job that we do!!!!!!!! This is just my thought on this subject. |
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| Posted 2 months ago I also hear this A LOT on my dept. Last week at our training which only 4 members out of 20 showed up to. It was brought up that we should get a CO meter so when we get odor calls we can go out on them. Me and one other member on the dept. thought this was a good idea. Everyone else and the ones who decided to show up after training thought we don't need one they are just a waste of money and whats wrong with calling another dept. to do it. They also happen to feel this way about thermal imaging. I have had to incidents since I joined the dept. in April that these 2 pieces of equipment would have come in handy. I'm also tired of hearing at our training that "We are never going to use that, Why do we need to learn that' We'll just call so and so Dept." My feeling is thier might come a day when you have to. Why not be prepared. I try not to get upset or dissappointed but what a difference going from a paid to a non-paid Dept. Change is hard but it's even harder to get people to go along with it. |
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| Posted 2 months ago angelalee says ...
We can learn a lot from our old timers especially the stuff they don't teach you in class. But I also think they can learn some new things from us young eager ones, who enjoy training and advancing our skills. You never know when that day will come when it will be the best thing we learned. |
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| Posted 2 months ago i agree change is sometimes good. To be safe out there we have to change our tactics or equipment sometime because everything else is changing. |
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| Posted 2 months ago sorry about the line that says"So yes changes are good but kick the guys that are trying to learn to be better at the job that we do!!!!!!!! " , it should have said " so changes are good but don't kick the guys that are trying to learn to be better at the job that we do!!!!!
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| Posted 2 months ago Sounds like alot of our department. Some things are good left alone and some things needs to change. I think every department has some kind of problem with change. "BUCKLE UP!!!" JOHN 15:12-13 Rodney Spires
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| Posted 2 months ago things dont always work like they did back 30 yrs ago. we must learn to cope with new change in the fire service in our area we are starting to see a change from 30 deggre fog pattern attacks to strait stream attacks if you don't like what I say use the big red X in the top right hand corner! |
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| Posted 2 months ago angelalee says ...
I hope you anit talking about me I don't have a problem with change but with us "OLD TIMERS" change takes awhile it want happen over night and not alot of change at one time. Don't push alot of changes at one time but work it in a little at a time.
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| Posted 2 months ago engineer_1 says ...
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| Posted 2 months ago Ugh.. I hear this ALL the time.. It gets old. I always listen to the 'old-timers' on my department, but there are new and maybe even better ways to do some of the things.. I mean thats why we go to trainings ever month, and thats why they change the curriculum so often, things change and get better.. Someone down there said something about departments getting younger and younger, I could not agree more! I am 17 and a female on my department, and my chief is very young, I mean he has a young daughter... But I can tell you from experience those 'old-timers' do kind of bring us down, but I find it makes me more eager to show them how to do something! |
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| Posted 2 months ago just because that-is-the-way-we-have-always-done-it doesn't make it the BEST or Right way..... a perfect example is the change that law enforcement had to make with the "active shooter" situation... it used to be that the 1st responding cars would set up a perimeter and wait for the SWAT team to come and deal with it... BUT times change and tactics had to also.... I suspect in the "good ole' days" the Firefighters would rush to a scene and go in and put out the fire....nowadays there's HazMat to consider as well as WMD events.... and like 1 person mentioned the time BEFORE scba was used for firefighting.... ask any of these oldtimers if they'd still go in and dance with the devil with no airpacks? What about horse drawn buggies pulling the fire gear? Didn't they USED to do it that way? Psychotics build castles in the air, Neurotics live in those castles, and Psychiatrists collect the rent. |
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| Posted 2 months ago the only difference between a rut and a grave is the one has the ends kicked out, move slowly, i moved like a bull in a china shop and made alot of enemy's on the way. sure things have changed finally but it was not worth the pain i have had to endure. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Jbeck: What do you suggest to just lay down and let things get worse? |
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| Posted 2 months ago OK, I totally disagree with the "that's the way we've always done it" mentality. That's the stuff that gets people killed. I dare anyone in my station to utter such a thing. Continuing education is extremely important. However, (playing the devil's advocate) is the new way always really better. Sometimes new ideas are crap. I think the best way is for everyone to keep an open mind. Everyone look at the old ways. Everyone look at the new ways. Everyone consider the differences. Conduct training. Then decide which way works best. That allows equal input and equal ownership. If something has been proven to be better, or safer, then present it that way. Offer some reasoning. Look at why the change has been recommended. "Test drive" the old and the new way, then compare the results. I have learned from the oldest of the old and the newest of the new. Everyone has a unique point of view, and something to add. Sometimes people's resistance to change is more of a resistance to something being forced upon them. I say, it is all in how you sell the idea. The largest room is the room for self improvement |
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| Posted 2 months ago Change is part of life! The world is changing around us and so are the threats that we face as Firefighters and EMS staff. If we do not change or adapt to these new threats and situations then we will continue to loose more and more brothers and sisters in the line of duty. I am a firm supporter of change when it is needed, but not when its for a new officer just trying to make a name for themself (delt with that before)............ |
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| Posted 2 months ago The "Change" in our dept. has been good,,,,, People are now motivated and want to be there. To make the change we got rid of the bad. It Worked !! |
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| Posted 2 months ago I guess the way we do it should continue to change until LODD is something of the past..... |
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| Posted 2 months ago I believe change is always good. If you think about it, the ones that make the statements are the ones who have been there forever with the training from the '60s. So, they should just sit back and let the new guys with the newer and better training be in charge. This is a shame because this never happens and LODD's continue to happen. So, no, I do not agree with the whole we have always done it this way before. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Tactics change constantly. In the '80s we used negative-pressure smoke ejectors, now we use PPV. We taught people for years to use the indirect method till we got tired of lobsterizing our firefighters, now we have CAFS and other techniques. No more searching on hands and knees, we've got TICs to help us. No more prying with the combi-tool till it pops, using the cutters more and more. I could list many, many things that have changed, most for the better, in the 25+ years I've been doing this. That said, occasionally we'll come across some noob that wants to change the way we do something (generally not tactic related) and just can't understand when we tell him "NO!" Maybe it's because we've tried your "new" way a dozen times before and it never worked?
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| Posted 2 months ago yeah, what is the ponit of taking all these new required classes because things should be done different because they are more safe and better. if we don't use any of the training at all!? |
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| Posted 2 months ago I think that when someone is saying those words, they are approaching the end of their career in the fire service. We hear that in every station I'm sure. When they start to resist change, means they have been doing it for awhile. Need to re-avaluate why they aredoing it. Either change with the times or quit. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Dino1410 says ...
I have to agree with you that re-evaluation needs to be done. Things change, but that is not to say that the older wiser firefighters can not teach us something. When I think about change, I think about technology. I mean take for instance the cars we have today, how many people know what peek and peel is? How many know how many air bags and where there are in vehicles today? I think the resistance is just like anything else, alot of people don't care for change. The problems is in our jobs we have to be able to accept it. |
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| Posted 2 months ago I have heard that saying alot when i first started but now that we have got some younger guys in the dept. we are completely changing things for the good. in the old days fire meetings were more like a social hour and only a select few would keep up on the pmcs. but with the change of chief and some of the LT.s things are getting better. Of course we have lost a few guys that were afraid of change but i feel it is for the better. |
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| Posted 2 months ago i have grown up listening to that stupid phrase! my dad has been in a few firedepartments and i have been in one as well,everyone one of them have the older firefighters saying that. especially from the firefighters who can no longer fight. they are makin improvements for a reason, if firefighters had listen and done it the way they always had we would still be all male using moustache's filled with water for breathing! the world is changing and so are the materials, structures, and chemicals we fight. we need to keep up with the times by changing our firehouse,equipment,and procedures i do not look into hell i dance there |